Posted by seemore on July 26, 2008 at 7:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have noticed a large amount of families grilling and drinking at Eben G Fine and more and more are coming every weekend.

But a lot of these families are littering, leering at women, and in general acting like lower class people.

Posted by Kev on July 26, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

HA HA HA...the comment above. "leering at women".

Posted by sport_trendleberg on July 26, 2008 at 7:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No worries. With the bumper to bumper parking and everyone darting in and out and crossing the street without looking, and generally clogging the mouth of the Canyon, it's just a matter of time (maybe today, if it gets hot enough!) until a speeding car and a group of pedestrians put an unhappy ending to all of this. If you've ever seen the problem on a 99-deg, check it out. It's going to happen.

Posted by ziggle on July 26, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There can easily be 200 people in Eben Fine park on a weekend night, and lately there have been at least 2-3 charcoal grills going despite the signs (in English and Spanish) prohibiting them.

But as to the trash issue, the City bears some of the blame. The trash cans are jammed full, and people leave bags of trash adjacent to the full bins, and often recyclables stacked nearby. They either need more trash cans (the bear proof kind, given the park location) or the trash cans need to be emptied by around 5pm Fri/Sat/Sun so that they have capacity for the trash from evening picnics. The Arapahoe parking area above the park has the same issue, compounded by way too many kayakers who think that it is ok to leave their beverage containers at the curb rather than walking 40 feet to the trash can. I've seen this happen very regularly when I'm out walking in the area.

And I don't understand Chief Beckner's point. If all crime and community problems were visible from patrol cars, that would be one thing, but in Boulder that's missing a lot. Put a couple of cops on bikes, with lights, and begin doing some regular patrolling of the Eben Fine, Settlers Park, and the creek path. They'll cover more territory, be more visible, and perhaps even deal with the the many transients illegally camping along the creek and in the park.

Eben Fine is an amazing resource -- a cool and shady respite even on the hottest days. With a little more care and attention from the City, it will stay that way.

Posted by nuggethillrd on July 26, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do the police have to be in their car's? They should be on foot patrol and not burning gas!

Posted by meatpieandtatters on July 26, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Really, why stuff the cops into cars? Then all they do is burn gas and speed around town. The police are our adversaries both in terms of their positions and attitudes.

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Usual Posters will be adding extra shifts to tell everyone to "stop whining."

Posted by katiekurt on July 26, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Fire Department seems to respond quickly without having to be in their trucks all the time... and driving around in circles like the Boulder Police. That must be very boring.

Always nice to see the Police on foot and bike patrols.

Posted by bigbud on July 26, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No drinking, no grilling, no loud music, no fun

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bingo! They're here.

Posted by KemStories on July 26, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kem Minnick, quoted in the above story, is a most notorious gardener and troublemaker on Mapleton Hill. She has left a trail of unhappy folks in Boulder.

Do you have a story about Kem? Email it to

kemstories@gmail.com

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The Fire Department seems to respond quickly without having to be in their trucks all the time.."

Except that they are. They shop for groceries and answer non-fire emergencies in a fire truck, so they don't have to rush back to the station to get it.

Posted by walongloop on July 26, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

> The Usual Posters will be adding extra shifts to tell everyone to "stop whining."

Between this and low-flying airplanes, there is no shortage of cause.

If the shoe fits....

Posted by albanal on July 26, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I once saw this whole family who set up shop, grill and all, in the middle of the bike path, which was carrying the usual weekend heavy load of cyclists, walkers, stroller-pushers, and dog-minders. Their little kids just dashed around completely obliviously.

It was like a New Yorker cartoon.

Posted by DailyGrinder on July 26, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey KemStories... I'm curious as to why Kem's calling the cops on rowdy park goers, is such a problem. I'm happy she did, actually.

I took my kids to that park recently and was disgusted with the actions of others, the garbage, the wet dirty dogs everywhere, the smell of dog poop wafting in the air, idiots standing and partying on the bike paths - blocking the way so others couldn't pass, foul language (F-word in front of my kids). Good job, Kem.

That park is outta control, but we don't need cops billy-clubbing people over the head either. A happy medium would be nice, but that's a dream.

Posted by rungreger on July 26, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What is "leering at women"?

Posted by CUBuff2000 on July 26, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm, wonder if Minnick is a Hill Neighbor too? Either way, she sucks!

Posted by KemStories on July 26, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There's nothing wrong with Kem complaining about the park problems---clearly, something needs to be done.

On the other hand, Kem clearly has the Boulder Police on speed dial. She is a serial complainer . . . and that's the just the beginning. The stories about Kem and her gardening adventures in West Boulder are legendary.

Before you buy into Kem's complaints, consider the source.

Posted by Doc_Brinkley on July 26, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When Sean, Natalie, and Jordan have each consumed 12 beers each they will be peeing in the bushes and yelling, "F*** the police!"

Old Doc, a homeless man himself, says a good old-fashioned beatdown by 3 or 4 burly cops is the best medicine for these drunken miscreants -- in all of Boulder's parks.

Posted by seemore on July 26, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

“What is "leering at women"?”

It is when a person stares at a woman’s private parts for long periods of time and is quite obvious about it, visually sodomizing them and making them feel uncomfortable.

In some cultures like say, hmmm,.. Mexico, it is excepted behavior but usually it creeps woman out in places like Boulder Colorado.

Posted by JoeSmith on July 26, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The Fire Department seems to respond quickly without having to be in their trucks all the time... and driving around in circles like the Boulder Police. That must be very boring."

And Katie, I'm sure you are the same idiot who complains when your (unlocked) vehicle gets an IPOD stolen, saying, "Why weren't the police patrolling my neighborhood?"

Posted by Chris_Thatcher on July 26, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Last time I pushed my kid in his stroller through Eben G. Fine Park on a Sunday afternoon, there was a young man with a huge welt under his eye who looked as if he had just been punched in the face, and several other young gangbanger types hanging out nearby giving him hard stares, one of whom urinated right on the bike path directly in front of us as we walked by.

Posted by Doc_Brinkley on July 26, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What is "visually sodomizing"?

These pathetic men sound like good candidates for my Brinkley Goat Gland Procedure to restore male vigor and stamina. One can be totally blind and still benefit!

Posted by davelax40 on July 26, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You actually can get a permit to drink and serve alcohol in the park as long as it's done in or directly around the picnic shelter. You have to reserve the shelter, too, though. We had a BBQ there earlier this summer that included alcohol and paid about $100 total (maybe $75) for the shelter reservation and alcohol permit. So, not everyone drinking in the park is doing it illegally. However, I'm guessing most people who are drinking don't have a permit.

Posted by davelax40 on July 26, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

See the sidebar on the left for more information...

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, these people need to get out of Boulder and see real crime and trouble.

Appearently a lot of good ol' Boulder folk have problem with our Latino Brothers and Sisiters. Yes, all Latino families leer at women including the women, it's a Mexican thing.

Why is Boulder considered to be such a progressive community?

Posted by Doc_Brinkley on July 26, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I've never considered Boulder to be progressive.

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Egalitarianism is the last refuge of the pushy and self-entitled.

Posted by cjonescu on July 26, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm with ziggle on this one...there's more that Parks and Rec should be doing to keep the park clean. Also, requiring a permit to grill or drink alcohol is based on good intention. The story doesn't mention, however, that a permit costs $100 or more. That's a high price to pay just to enjoy the park. I'd rather push my luck and enjoy my beer and brats without a permit.

Who does one call to complain about Boulder's ninnies who don't have anything better to do than call the police whenever they get their panties in a bunch?

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I'm tired of people working that hustle, and the race hustle, too. Just because something is fine with you, doesn't mean everyone else has to go along."

Just as; Why do we have to stop everything in our lives in order to appease a couple of constant complainers?

The question that needs to be asked is; are there really big problems occurring or are some people just beng never-satisfied serial complainers?

These issues go both ways.

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Who does one call to complain about Boulder's ninnies who don't have anything better to do than call the police whenever they get their panties in a bunch?"

Call a yahoo. Or better yet, just log in and whine about whining.

Who cares who you think is a "ninnie" or whether someone else's panties are "in a bunch"?

Try the Hate Hotline. They could use a laugh.

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again, are there really serious problems occuring or are the problems being manufactured in the minds of people who aren't having their every desire to control their surroundings and everyone around them satisfied.

I really do believe that people cause problems for others and those issues should be dealt with. Just as I also have experienced neighbors who always complain about every aspect of other neighbor's lives though no real harm (physical, emotional or mental) is actually occuring. Then the police are called in and those who haven't been causing real problems are being fined and limited for no real reason other than the fact that the complainer can't stand the people around him or her.

For example. A few years back 7 of us gathered at a friend's house to see them off on a worldwide trip early on a Saturday evening. We were BBQing on the deck, talking and there was music playing at a reasonably polite level in the house. At 9pm a police woman arrived and told us we needed shut down the party and all 7 of us responsible 30something working adults on a Saturday had to go home. It was a complaint from a neighbor and the officer dolled out a $700 fine though we had not even been warned. She also threatened to arrest us until we left.

Does this happen often in Boulder? Too many times to count.

Posted by flabuff227 on July 26, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hat- Give me or address so i can pee on your doorstep. Hopefully you will walk in the line of fire. P.S. You suck!

Posted by flabuff227 on July 26, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excuse me Your address

Posted by albanal on July 26, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Does this happen often in Boulder? Too many times to count"

The problem is that Boulder's so-called noise enforcement is a cruel joke. Arrogant, arbitrary, understaffed, apparently accountable to no one. The Leona Helmsley of Noise is just as likely to completely blow off an egregious situation as pursue one that could easily be resolved.

The problem is not that citizens have complaints. For what people pay in taxes, these complaints could be addressed by a professional with good judgement, not a borderline in uniform.

I hope you contested that ticket in court and gave the City Council an earful.

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My friend had to pay the fine a few days before she left on her trip.

Posted by flabuff227 on July 26, 2008 at 2:06 p.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by albanal on July 26, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"My friend had to pay the fine a few days before she left on her trip."

These things shouldn't be let slide.

Wayne Laugesen, formerly of Boulder Weekly, devoted a column to an even worse incident, to negligible effect, unfortunately.

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Flabuff: Hat is voicing his opinion on the matter and we don't need to pee on anyone's door.

Though I think that some people do complain too much and the city does bend over backwards for some of these people, people do have legitimate concerns. Police presence at Ebin G. Fine would keep some real issues at bay and it would be good for our officers to get out of the car and be present. What ever happened to the bike cops?

Hat is far from Rovian and I really like the word "noob."

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What annoyed me was the statement that Mexican families "leer." Other people just look at those they find attractive.

Also, there seems to be many who feel concern over the fact that people of Latino culture tend to gather and celebrate in large groups of family and friends, which disturbs some caucasians who tend to stick to themselves.

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Wayne Laugesen, formerly of Boulder Weekly, devoted a column to an even worse incident, to negligible effect, unfortunately."

Was that the story about the woman who constantly complained about her neighbors, one being a former City Attorny?

Posted by flabuff227 on July 26, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I said doorstep. He says the word "noob" Because hes been called that all his life.

I never disagreed with police presence at the park. If poeple are trashing the park, then something needs to be done.

Posted by jadam12 on July 26, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was also not aware that you couldn't BBQ at Ebin G Fine unless you rented the pavillion or got a permit. I've done it before and was not told. That law is has not been made very clear and is a bit over the top as well.

Posted by albanal on July 26, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Was that the story about the woman who constantly complained about her neighbors, one being a former City Attorny?"

It was the one about the imaginary clicking croquet balls. It should have led to a firing.

Posted by mattz on July 26, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not with Ziggle on this one. People leaving big piles of garbage on the sidewalk is the city's fault? It is the fault of the people who leave big piles of garbage. You need to take your own garbage home when the can is full.

Also, in my job I deal with the Boulder PD and FD on a fairly regular basis and have lots of good things to say about them and very little constructive criticisim, except the poorly enforced noise ordinance, and I think traffic laws should be more strongly enforced for cyclists.

Bigbud, if you want drinking and loud music there is the Fox, Boulder T., B-Side, Catacombs, St. Julien's, Bacaro...

Posted by albanal on July 26, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW. We do not own an "elderly cat." Outside of that, I'm not allowed to comment.

You might want to be careful about posting unsubstantiated rumors about people who may be actual persons, and as a result receive harassment or malicious mischief.

Posted by megam2003 on July 26, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

why dont the cops come down to the park at 20th and canyon and break up the hobo camp that spills over into my parking lot every morning? Apparently ruffians drinking beer and using the F word (cram it lady, your kids have already heard it on cable TV) is too big of a threat to our boulder way of life . . .

anyways, a "prevalence of loud, drunken, leering louts littering at the park" sounds like a good party!

Posted by super_boulder on July 26, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What a bunch of whiners. Since when does fun only revolve around 2 parents and their 2.5 kids? What about people that want to do other things?

I do not want my tax money paying because people are loud, screaming drinking smoking. It is just as much their outside as it is yours. Is it a rule now that people have to use their "inside voice" outside?

So many of these people have taken "leave me alone and let me do what I want", to "My kids need to be protected against people that are also having a good time. Bunch of hypocrites.

I'm sure I'll be sent to jail for it, but I also let my children see the things that are not so nice about this planet. So far their brains, nor their retina's have been damaged. They have even seen naked people, to the horror of some. Maybe I should take the mirrors out of their room. You all should add that to your next county meeting.

Seems to me that so many of these people forgot they were younger at some point.

If these people are that worried about their kids, quit using my money and your children as an excuse and go get yourself a private guard. Maybe then when YOUR kids get in the way of my Frisbee the guard can Taser the kids and if the parents argue, Taser them as well. Might actually teach all 3 parties involved to shut up and let the world be.

Posted by jim_anchower on July 26, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"What a bunch of whiners"

Welcome to the club! And here's your new Whiners Club credit card. LOL!

Posted by pstream on July 26, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you'all stay there in Boulder, I left long ago and don't miss it at all. Too many people with 'tudes! Some have come to where I live now, but are "taken care of" swiftly. I like the cops on bikes, shown there flashlight, Yeah!

Posted by billy_goat_gruff on July 26, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I left long ago and don't miss it at all."

So that was what caused that spike in the literacy rate!

But don't think we don't miss you terribly, anyway.

Posted by ImInBoulder on July 26, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pstream: Funny that you left "long ago and don't miss it at all" but you still troll the daily paper's web site.

Posted by seamonster on July 26, 2008 at 5:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I for one believe that the usage of the park for summertime fun shouldn't be curtailed and "policed" to accommodate the displeasure of a few squeaky wheels. I believe this is a direct assault on the historical character of Boulder and this park by them.

I've lived in Boulder for almost 30 years, most of it in an adjacent neighborhood (Chautauqua), and my family has used and enjoyed the parks in this area, including Eben G. Fine.

As the Police Chief noted, "It's always been a place that attracts a lot of people." Every summer, especially during the dog days of summer, the park experiences increased usage.

Yes, users of the park do have a responsibility to behave within the law and respect the diversity of users and uses permitted within the park. However, I haven't observed any usage or behavior that is significantly different from preceding summers.

As suggested, the City should facilitate the use of the park by adding additional garbage cans and/or collection. But as for the people using the park, leave them alone.

Posted by cashTracks on July 26, 2008 at 7:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In the name of all that is holy, please boot the drum circles.

Posted by Erryt on July 26, 2008 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jadam12--Your little 'party' that you were having could have been keeping the woman who called the police from sleeping when she needed to get up early on a Saturday morning to go to work or for some other reason. What you considered to be a 'polite' level of music obviously wasn't since she was unable to sleep because of it. Also, when you are outside on your deck, in many apartment buildings, the noise sounds as though the people talking are standing inside your apartment. You were disturbing her if she called the police. You people who have no consideration for other people deserve the fines you get. I almost lost a job because of people like you who thought they were entitled to party whenever they wanted to and so caused me to lose sleep often enough that it seriously affected my work.

Posted by jadam12 on July 27, 2008 at 1:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Erryt, it was a house with a yard enclosed with a fence about 7 or 8 feet high, not an apartment.

Had the neighbor asked or if the police officer would have let us go inside as we politely asked to do so, we would have glady complied. We repeatedly told the officer we had no problem with going inside the house. We were not given a chance and the officer threatened arrests.

It was 9pm on a Saturday night. Noise violations start at 10pm.

"You people who have no consideration for other people deserve the fines you get. I almost lost a job because of people like you who thought they were entitled to party whenever they wanted to and so caused me to lose sleep often enough that it seriously affected my work."

We were and still are all 7 working responsible 30-something adults who would have gladly turned down the music and brought the dinner party into the house.

Sorry to burst your sensitive bubble Erryt, but we were doing what most responsible adults do on a Saturday night by having a dinner party with good friends in a private residence.

Sounds like you need to move to a quieter place to save your job instead of trolling with college kids in a party complex.